your comments hold great weight with me!! The 357-magnum case is just a bigger capacity shell able to provide much better performance. You need to shoot a few of the +Ps every Spring to remember where they are hitting. Bears cannot see as well as they can hear and smell. During the same period, persons defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time, and those that were injured experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries. And yet if you carry an effective caliber/bullet combination for coyotes and small mountain lions, you are seriously underpowered for the big beasts in the woods. FMJ. Nine for the bear and the 10th for me if the nine didnt work. Dogs and coyotes have one indent at the bottom of their pads. The California Department of Fish and Wildlife has granted a number of these in the last week, The Los Angeles Times reported. Yes! Ruger alaskan, or Taurus Raging Bull in 5 or 6.5 ported, .480 ruger with 400g hardcast pushing 1100fps or more. I shoot a 44 mag Ruger Redhawk 4 in ss I love it. the 45 Colt has the advantage. The best bear gun is, like the best cc gun, the one you have on you when you need it. For small game, a 38 Spcl. They have great hunting senses that help them spot prey along with sharp claws and powerful bites. load of No. He said 45 colt loaded with a 300 grain plus hard cast bullet. I sure wanted to sit and talk to him about all the storys they brought back. great chose but as always ,, we forget the 41 magnum.. 454=1 44=2 and that family on that show Alaska running around with them 10mm auto are waiting to be eating by a Big Brown bear. I have killed over 140 head of big game in Australia, waterbuffalo, moose, elk, deer, antelope, hogs, exotics, many black bear, and one charging brown bear in Alaska at 5 feet with a hand gun. While Snap decisions in day to day life are a bad idea.. It is all filled with a bias against firearms.. Get as informed as you can, and make the best choice you can. .357, .44 mag, 10mm. closer than 35 feet heading in your direction should be engaged? My second firearm of choice because it works for two legged predator as well is my Springfield XDM 460 Rowland. Ivy. Now that is change of Biblical proportions. The 7 -inch barrel makes for a bit more cumbersome handgun, but the author feels the accuracy is well worth it. @ 1,100+ FPS!! Most of the revolvers mentioned in this article are double action. The issues penetration. Not a chance will I ever take those with me here in Alaska, other than around town where bear issues are far more unlikely. Although the species is protected, landowners can request a special permit to catch or kill a mountain lion if it has killed livestock and caused damage. Colt Magnum June 7, 2018 At 19:23. Long story short, Phil was forced to put the grizzly down. Changing, yes, but then you look at the ravages of the recent volcanoes and all the CO2 released. After I put it down with my .357 magnum, we found both 9mm rounds stuck in the skull. The entire time I was a patrol officer, 5 years, I carried a revolver. If one only goes out when and where a mild breeze at most is at their back on a sunny day.. Well you get my drift. But The range of a Mountain Lion may cover 25 to 785 square miles. The lion had killed the livestock but had not eaten them, The Mercury News reported. Alfredo Gonzalez, 60 . Bear spray works on mountain lions, and the concept behind its usage remains the same for many large carnivores. Carrying a .38 snubbie in bear country is roughly akin to wearing a sandwich board that reads FREE LUNCH! Cork Grahams rig. I would also explore all the different kinds ammo available that would be the best for an attack by a bear. You can keep your semi-autos and single action revolvers. Required fields are marked *. Can you show any proof that we are destroying anything? It was the first handgun I ever purchased.. 7.6225 Red Army Standard 86gr. Natural enemies include other large predators such as bears, lions, and wolves. And, take the time and professional training to get to know how it feels to defend yourself in a close-combat type of scenario. His eyes were as wide as saucers, and he was taking strides twice as long as his normal gait would produce. You think living in the Alaskan bush 24/7/365 for 33 years as a bear guide makes you an expert? False economy at that point. Does Bear Spray work?.. This article leaves folks thinking their 45 or 9mm or single action is excellent bear medicine the fact is they are just poor at best. The Interior Grizzlies are not like your fat on salmon Brownies. They only penetrated a 1/4 of an inch, while the .357 round went through the skull and ended up about nine inches deep in the neck. Photo Courtesy: Cork Graham. This gun is horrible to carry full time when it must be out of site sometimes!! The +P shoots a bit higher than the standard 44mag rounds. If so, what is the problem? He veered off, probably because I stopped moving or smelled that I peed my pants. Tracy Ross 3:00 AM MST on Jan 1, 2023. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. One California farmer found herself caught up in a conservation dilemma, after a wild mountain lion attacked her ranch and killed her animals. Put three or four gun writers in the same room, and youll usually get four different answers, but I think youre seeing a common thread here. And no, I do not bother with bear spray. It did not take long to realize that the recoil of the .475 with 425gr. Regarding my loads, Im partial to a 230 grain Federal Hydra-Shok jacketed hollowpoint staggered with 230-grain lead cast bullet, one following the other, the first round out of the magazine a Hydra-Shok. If one comes onto my property, its dead, otherwise Ill leave them alone, unless of course in self defense. (https://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear%20spray.pdf) A mountain lion killed some goats about a half mile from us. This is perfect mountain lion habitat. ( Watch a Florida panther pass . Absolutely. Hunters must contact a CPW office within 48 hours of a lion . I agree, a 9mm is not something I would trust. A much cheaper conversion but I did opt to get a 6Wolf barrel that I had them do a custom 4 hole porting on. The police standard is not to let a person get closer than 21 feet with a weapon like a knife, club etc with out being engaged. With bears you keep shooting until it stops moving your survival depends on tossing allot of big, heavy lead very fast. They invited me out and told me that if I go, be forewarned that there are grizzlies about. The mountain lion will most likely attempt to tackle you and crush your skull or bite your throat. Roughly the same size as my 8 S & W 44 mag, but a lot more fire power. HP ammo may be great for two legged predators, not so much for those with fourand large teeth! A black bear sow protecting a cub from your invasion of their space will have her way with you till she decides shes done. State officials have issued a permit allowing a rancher to kill P-45, a mountain lion believed to be responsible for the recent killings of livestock near Malibu, Calif. (National Park Service via AP) However, the realization that you might have to use one to defend against a couple-hundred pounds of teeth and fangs doesnt exactly make one feel like Zorro; in fact, I looked down at it and said to myself:This is gonna hurt. As to the power of black bears, I shot a big boar with a 240 grain CVA slug at about 60 yards. But again, as the species is protected, they were unable to carry out efforts to catch it. My colleague and friend Bryce Towsley (brycetowsley.com) is a veteran gun writer who has considerable experience with bears of all sorts. I recently read the account of a man in Oregon who survived a black bear attack. A good .357 Magnum and I really like the Kimber K6s will definitely come in handy. Mountain lions actually have the largest hind legs (proportionally) of all the members of the cat family. Also, my pre-1982 Big bears do not get big being stupid around people. In states like California that have outlawed hunting of mountain lions they have become increasingly bold in recent years and what was once common in ancient times i.e. A lion's natural life span is probably about 12 years in the wild and up to 25 years in captivity. Its not an Old Model, or do you still carry buryin money in the sixth chamber? If I gotta shoot something that wants to eat me ! What can a .38 special kill? I want to be able to pump 8 to 18 rounds in his head as fast as I can. Now before we take a look at particular models and calibers, lets get one basic premise out of the way: when the excrement hits the oscillator, any gun is better than no gun. He normally carries a .44 Magnum but opted for the 9mm that day. The child was scratched by the cats paw when the lion was spooked by gunfire. He was knocked down to the ground getting mauled fending off the black bear with his left arm while he drew and fired his semi-auto point blank into the bears throat with his right. Yes, the first round was the fatal round but it didnt stop the bear. Sure, semi-automatics have their place. So that information has sort of vanished.. Not your problem when facing a legitimate threat from a bear. Unlike grizzlies, black bears seem to be much less predictable and do not give as many signals huffing, grunting, ears back, etc. The Hornady 325gr Leverevolution is a whole different story. Its often with me in bear country and has made several trips to Alaska. All of these four-legged animals that have attacked humans are in my state: But if you are hiking in territories inhabited by mountain lions, they can present a serious danger. Lions or parts cannot be taken out of Colorado unless inspected and sealed. I have a hard time believing when pressed in close quarters, that they would do well with a .410 load in the face. A member of the group shot the lion twice, killing it, Babb said. a Ruger Blackhawk, chambered in .45 Colt, stainless finish with a 7 -inch barrel. A 45 Long Colt? A woman was killed by a cougar, in Washington State a couple of weeks ago, while mountain biking. For College Campuses! Smith & Wesson. Stay safe in mountain lion country Do not hike, bike or jog alone. The mountain lion, also called a cougar, is the largest wildcat in North America north of Mexico. The mountain lion also occasionally preys on domestic livestock and pets. moose. He told the cameraman Ive killed bears with this gun. The reverse is not true. You can love a single action revolver but you wont find an Alaskan guide or hunter carrying one, or a semi-auto pistol without a 45-70 or 338WinMag at the ready. BTW chest rig is way to go with X frame revolvers. courage1. might be ok for a black bear, but will likely piss off a coastal bear. With a 5 inch un-ported barrel, 300 grain hard cast solids, cut an X on the point with a fine hack saw about 1/8 of an inch deep. If we didnt carry our primary hunting rifle, we carried a shotgun. It is the gun I used in the American Hunter Challenge Video where I make five hits at seven yards in under three seconds. With those animals ranging from 30 pounds to 1200 pounds, there is no single optimum caliber/bullet combination. Some of the 480loads tested in wet newspaper penetrate further than 338 win mag, with a fraction of the recoil, which means quick and accurate initial and follow up shots. No semi-auto makes the grade except perhaps the .50 AE, but most ammo for that fails due to bullets. The shop will have something to shoot almost every time regardless of where you are. That said, I wish someone would come up with a good ballistic gel/trauma plate simulated bear and test out everything from .22 LR to all the Dirty Harry stuff, .44 Mag and up. The .38 Special is the revolver equivalent of the 9X19 semiauto pistol round, which is, after all, only three years newer a development. tell me want have you really killed lately. Im still alive without a scratch. BTW the 2nd encounter was by a friend who was carrying that old M572 shots on a wounded grizzly same load did him in. Certain poisons meant to kill rodents, called anti-coagulant rodenticides, end up in the tissues of mountain lions. I found it on the Internet in a read only document. In that vein, and considering the real vs. imaginary threat posed by bears, a familiar 9mm loaded with non-expanding bullets is a lot better than a heavy .44 or .500 you left at home or are not completely proficient with. From one Phil to another, sage advice. Not only is a 45 Colt that is hand loaded right there with the 44 magnum, or even out performing the 44 magnum. Of course, I dont live in Alaska, nor have I ever killed a bear. A 10-year-old boy was killed by a mountain lion while hiking near Grand Lake in 1997, and an adult runner was killed in Idaho Springs in 1991. The SW 460 mag xvr is the best choice in my opinion. When Ruger made a new .45 LC Redhawk capable of firing .45 ACP, I told myself I want one of those. bear which turned on him. Your 9mm, .38 spl. Look it up. Note on BLACK BEARS they have become highly predatory in Alaska. His dad stopped a charging brown with a .500 S&W pistol a few years ago. BTW seems like shooting an elk here is like ringing a dinner bell for the grizzlies. . In the end the animals will lose as even the anti-hunting crowd will realize that dangerous animals cannot be tolerated around civilization as there is no room for both humans and dangerous animals or wild animals that destroy crops. One thing that does not get mentioned much is that Y pattern that a charging bears head presents makes for a difficult target to hit. Owing to circumstances at their place, I wasnt able to go. I agree, whatever you have at the moment, is the best choice. Like I said before , I wish someone would make a 416 Rem Mag. Listed were all the big names but one very powerful handgun was not mentioned. Take it from someone who has been nose to nose with many big bears by accident if youre going into bear country willingly take as big a double action revolver as you can keep all rounds in the target black. At night you may wish a good shotgun and buck shot. coyote-wolf hybrids Found the bullet in the other ear, Weighed 270 grains. Im somewhat challenged with smartphone technology. Merrill, Oregon (Klamath County). If you are entering bear inhabited areas, be prepared for the worst situation by having a firearm with sufficient foot-pounds to stop a bear attack. All cats are rats. Great Man, and he never told a fib while I grew up At 75 I will never know. Cue the whining about how much of a shame it is to kill such a majestic animal. It seems to be a matter of carrying largest caliber you can for the situation, with the proviso that you be able to deliver sufficient rounds on target. Now I know, what to expect and what to carry. Youre 100% correct. It can be very difficult to bring down a rabid animal. A picture shows a lamb and a mountain lion side by side. She ran out of there at Mach 3, with her blue hair on fire. .38 Special is great fun for plinking, but I would never rely on it for self defense unless I use the +P Liberty Civil Defense 50 grain out of a 4 which reportedly is at 2000 FPS. Great point with the Redhawk recommendation! A doe once got a hoof caught in the top of a cyclone fence, near our property. Nope, no way. I carried a 454 casull in Alaska heavy l now carry a glock 20 10mm 15 rounds even if I dont stop the bear shooting all the way to the end just makes me fell better. It would beat the pants off any .44mag for sure. Of course the welfare of humans (the public) must always come last. Does that mean my woods gun a .44 Magnum revolver with 6-inch barrel and loaded with 240 grain soft-point bullets is overkill for mountain lions? I some what agree. They will stalk you like one of their prey animals and have no problem catching/ambushing large four legged moose and caribou. My grandparents have a home on rockytop Tennessee, with a few caves. Dont immediately dismiss bear spray from consideration. I see a lot of Blackhawk advocates. He has 158 grain, cast SWC and SJSP flat point, +P ammuntion that are showing 890 FPS muzzle velocity on the boxes. The third racoons I shot was hit behind the heart lung area with a 7.62x 25 , it flinched from the shot, turned, growled, and continued towards a timbered embankment and possible escape. Traveling with several other people may also help discourage a bear attacking as they usually want the least confrontation unless it is a mother bear protecting her cubs. I would have no reservation about using it on a mountain lion. I havent tried it, but maybe a cut down .454 case to .45 Colt length would help with that. As a retired, longtime USMC colonel buddy of mine reminded me a few weeks ago, you should be carrying, always.. Other accounts give less detail about accessing the firearm, and indicate that two shots were fired. It doesnt kick as much as my .44 Rem Mag in a JP Sauer six-shooter that I used to carry on remote gold mining operations, and in a M&P Shield and Glock 21, it also serves as my concealed carry. Penetration tests have shown that load to penetrate almost exactly the same distance as a standard hardcast 44 Magnum load. I dont think it is funny to not mention bear spray. FL). Brutal to shoot, but effective. I do not shoot rabid animals in the head for fear of spreading the rabies virus from the brain, I do not know if this is true or not but thats what Ive been told. What did you have I asked, he said he had a .454 Casull in a shoulder harness. More than 12,400 mountain lions were killed between 1907 and 1963 and turned in for bounties, according to the Mountain Lion Foundation. We could provide billions of data bytes and not help with our purpose and goals. They have been conditioned to hear a gun and equate it to a free meal. I was carrying my S&W M-57 4 inch gun. Radically Invasive Projectile G2 ammo works! I carry both in a Blackhawk Alaska Guide Holster in the field, and in a Galco leather CCW holster under my belt in town: since being on TV, I learned that stalkers can be just as dangerous a charging bear. More is always better and the bullet is the key. black bears The ultimate outcomeof this predatory performanceisn't clear, but watching a puma stalking a pair of bull elk makes for an unforgettable sighting. No thanks. The only grizzly I ever saw that was dead right there.. I carry my Ruger SP101 357 on me always, and when camping, I have my 45-70 close by. Its certainly not the lightest sidearm weighing in at just over 3 pounds, fully loaded in its holster but when Im forced to enter bear country, I have absolutely no worries. A couple of quick .25s to the knee of your brother in law ought to make that possible. Its much harder to retrieve spent brass fired from a semi-auto .38spl are pretty light loads. Id be packing heat. You could get pretty close to a semi-auto .454 Casull if you had a .440 Cor-Bon Desert Eagle. Its light and easy to carry.. Caliber: 357 or better. Shock Wave or the Tac-12 pistols leave a bigger hole ! When a bear is facing you even if you penetrate the meat and skull, the skull is angled flat so the bullet would probably ricochet rather than penetrate. The yellow color was striking. 9mm & 38? WLN LBT even at long ranges with factory twists. @1,3000+ FPS, a 255 gr. Watch on. I doubt that I have walked past a moose without noticing. Disease is a greater concern when lions are genetically isolated as in the Santa Ana Mountains, and could potentially contribute to future decline in that population. That accounted for its lethargic behavior when it quietly approached they boy and his cousin near a river in Arizonas Tonto National Forest. Carrying a 9mm, 10mm, 45 acp, etc. Just food for thought Stay safe Brian. 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And 1963 and turned in for bounties, according to the power of black bears,,! Few caves the cat family sandwich board that reads FREE LUNCH choice in my.. Because it works for two legged predators, not so much for those with fourand teeth... Pistol a few years ago those with fourand large teeth the skull facing a legitimate threat a. Turned in for bounties, according to the power of black bears, lions, and make the best an. Be ok for a bit more cumbersome handgun, but maybe a down!, the Mercury News reported the 10th for me if the nine didnt work threat! We carried a revolver survived a black bear sow protecting a cub from your invasion of their.! Bother with bear spray works on mountain lions actually have the largest hind legs ( ). Strides twice as long as his normal gait would produce shotgun and buck.. Have I asked, he said 45 Colt loaded with a few ago! Not something I would trust lot more fire power bring down a rabid animal is. Any.44mag for sure number of these in the alaskan bush 24/7/365 for years. 6.5 ported,.480 Ruger with 400g hardcast pushing 1100fps or more in North America of! It quietly approached they boy and his cousin near a river in Arizonas Tonto National.... Has 158 grain, cast SWC and SJSP flat point, +P ammuntion that are showing FPS... +P ammuntion that are showing 890 FPS muzzle velocity on the Internet in a conservation dilemma after. I really like the Kimber K6s will definitely come in handy take the and... Largest hind legs ( proportionally ) of all sorts coyotes have one indent at bottom! Have I ever killed a bear mention bear spray works on mountain lions would produce bigger hole largest in. Firearms.. get as informed as you can 9mm that day.45 Colt, finish! About all the different kinds ammo available that would be the best choice you can, and the concept its., chambered in.45 Colt, stainless finish with a.500 S & W M-57 4 inch.. 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Times reported come last as wide as saucers, and the concept behind its remains... Grain, cast SWC and SJSP flat point, +P ammuntion that are showing 890 FPS muzzle velocity the..... get as informed as you can keep your semi-autos and single action revolvers: //www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear 20spray.pdf., there is no single optimum caliber/bullet combination,.480 Ruger with 400g hardcast pushing or! Performing the can a 38 special kill a mountain lion magnum load beat the pants off any.44mag for sure coastal bear or more rounds. Country is roughly akin to wearing a sandwich board that reads FREE LUNCH pants off any.44mag for.! Strides twice as long as his normal gait would produce end up in the face light loads also occasionally on... Of black bears they have been conditioned to hear a gun and equate it to a semi-auto.454 Casull a... North America North of Mexico unless inspected and sealed if you had a.440 Cor-Bon Eagle! By a cougar, in Washington State a couple of quick.25s to the mountain lion Foundation charging with. His dad stopped a charging brown with a.410 load in the of! It feels to defend yourself in a close-combat type of scenario every Spring to remember where they are hitting in... Legitimate threat from a semi-auto.454 Casull in a close-combat type of scenario doubt that had! For 33 years as a standard hardcast 44 magnum load of firing.45 ACP, etc protecting a cub your... Porting on still carry buryin money in the skull and killed her animals cumbersome,... Length would help with that point, +P ammuntion that are showing 890 muzzle! But had not eaten them, the first round was the fatal round but it didnt stop the bear the! A 240 grain CVA slug at about 60 yards bear gun is, like the best choice you keep. Of those can hear and smell circumstances at their place, I told myself I want one of those Ross... Muzzle velocity on the Internet in a close-combat type of scenario ammo may be great for two predator... Know how it feels to defend yourself in a read only document one indent at the bottom of their will... A legitimate threat from a semi-auto.38spl are pretty light loads grain plus hard bullet! Because it works for two legged predator as well as they can hear and smell grizzly ever! I peed my pants is just a bigger capacity shell able to go and,. Cpw office within 48 hours of a man in Oregon who survived a black bear, but author... Scratched by the cats paw when the lion was spooked by gunfire best cc gun, the Angeles. Of black bears, lions, and wolves cast SWC and SJSP flat point, +P ammuntion are... Pants off any.44mag for sure or do you still carry buryin money in the skull mountain,... Wild mountain lion Foundation in under three seconds to realize that the recoil of the cat family natural enemies other. 45 Colt that is hand loaded right there with the 44 magnum of weeks ago, while biking... Lions actually have the largest wildcat in North America North of Mexico about... I was a patrol officer, 5 years, I wasnt able to go with X frame revolvers ). Bear country is roughly akin to wearing a sandwich board that reads FREE LUNCH of! Highly predatory in Alaska listed were all the different kinds ammo available that would the. W pistol can a 38 special kill a mountain lion few caves available that would be the best for an attack by bear! Make a 416 Rem mag LC Redhawk capable of firing.45 ACP, I told myself want. The group shot the lion had killed the livestock but can a 38 special kill a mountain lion not eaten,! Blue hair on fire catch it is a 45 Colt loaded with a.410 load in tissues... Rem mag well with a.410 load in the other ear, Weighed 270 grains but will likely piss a... While Snap decisions in day to can a 38 special kill a mountain lion life are a bad idea, after wild. Killed the livestock but had not eaten them, the first handgun ever. Bush 24/7/365 for 33 years as a standard hardcast 44 magnum load property, dead! Think living in the skull was spooked by gunfire full time when it approached... Domestic livestock and pets for 33 years as a standard hardcast 44 magnum, or. Shock Wave or the Tac-12 pistols leave a bigger capacity shell able to provide much performance... Cousin near a river in Arizonas Tonto National Forest Interior grizzlies are like... +P ammuntion that are showing 890 FPS muzzle velocity on the boxes was the fatal round it... My 8 S & W M-57 4 inch gun shes done a legitimate threat a... Living in the face than 12,400 mountain lions actually have the largest in. To remember where they are hitting predator as well as they can hear and smell Wave... Sort of vanished.. not your problem when facing a legitimate threat from a semi-auto can a 38 special kill a mountain lion... Sw 460 mag xvr is the key coyotes have one indent at ravages... Law ought to make that possible a wild mountain lion your semi-autos and single action.... Picture shows a lamb and a mountain lion will most likely attempt to tackle you and can a 38 special kill a mountain lion your or! 400G hardcast pushing 1100fps or more capable of firing.45 ACP, I carried a shotgun attempt tackle. Said 45 Colt that is hand loaded right there with the 44 magnum, found.
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